Curse

Pandora's box · Jun 24, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Now more and more players have done most missions it becomes harder and harder to find a decent party to do those missions. Many players only want to do the bonus quest in the missions. This leads to situations where its very hard to find a party for the real mission and even than, when the mission starts there are players who go straightly to the bonus quest and leave when it appears that others want to beat the real mission only. Or leave after completing the bonus level.

My suggestion: Dont give the reward for the bonus quest until the real mission has been completed!

EinValentine · Jun 24, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

This is an excellent idea.

DavenXion · Jun 24, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

I like it, I'm seeing the same thing of people spamming for Bonus only, which is so-so because they're upfront about it even if they are annoying.

The worst is what you say, lvl 20's willing to "help out" on a mission since they need the bonus. Then leave you stranded with maybe 3-4 people to try and finish.

drowningfish999 · Jun 24, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

My only problem with this is what if you want to do a quick run through a mission with henchmen, or with an entire group that decides they want to do bonus only. Why make them have to go through the whole thing as well?

salja Wachi · Jun 24, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

STOP TRYING TO NER EVERYTHINNG!!!!!!

wtf is wrong with you guys?

get a good group we all went through the same things.

it amazes me how when something gets a little difficult all i hear is whawhahwahwah please change it or "this sucks, i cannot do it make it easier"

get a good group and do it. if you ahve to try it again and agin take henchies or get in a guild.

stop trying to nerf the entire game cause it is difficult in some spots. sheesh i am tired of raeding whining crap

Yamat · Jun 24, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Salja, chill dude.

Pandora's suggestions is actually a good one, and wouldn't affect anyone. The people screaming for a group to do the bonus only would not be put out in any way by this change... just means in the first instance they scream "LFG for mission and bonus" instead of coming back.

Where's the harm in that?

Shin Lail · Jun 24, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

STOP TRYING TO NER EVERYTHINNG!!!!!!

wtf is wrong with you guys?

get a good group we all went through the same things.

it amazes me how when something gets a little difficult all i hear is whawhahwahwah please change it or "this sucks, i cannot do it make it easier"

get a good group and do it. if you ahve to try it again and agin take henchies or get in a guild.

stop trying to nerf the entire game cause it is difficult in some spots. sheesh i am tired of raeding whining crap

That was completely out of place. This is not a nerf it just encourages community. This same reason is why I use henchies only. Its all wasted time and encourages people to use henchies only. This does more damage to the game then good. It has nothing to do with nerf and frankly that word gets so over used. It will help the community as a whole because right now I can't see any reason to wait around for pug.

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

I don't know how you can say it "wouldn't affect anyone." "Where's the harm in that?" Well, the harm is as salja stated, that the ppl that have done the mission already just want the bonus without griding through the whole mission again.

The problem is for a number of missions, the bonus + mission in the same run is generally not possible or EXTREMELY difficult. Requiring the mission to be completed before the bonus is rewarded becomes impractical at this point.

It is easy enough to find people that want to do the mission. Just advertise you are doing the mission and make it clear before starting the mission--that way if ppl want to do the bonus only they will leave. Sure, every now and then you will get a jerk that lies and says they will do the mission. Just deal with it. There will always be jerks no matter what.

Yamat · Jun 24, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

^^ are you some kind of idiot? If you join a group that does both mission and bonus, you only go through once, not twice. Grind? What grind?

Name one mission where you can't do the main misison and bonus in one run?

chalt2 · Jun 24, 2005, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Now more and more players have done most missions it becomes harder and harder to find a decent party to do those missions. Many players only want to do the bonus quest in the missions. This leads to situations where its very hard to find a party for the real mission and even than, when the mission starts there are players who go straightly to the bonus quest and leave when it appears that others want to beat the real mission only. Or leave after completing the bonus level.

My suggestion: Dont give the reward for the bonus quest until the real mission has been completed!

I just want to make sure I'm getting what you're saying, in order to get the "bonus" you MUST do the mission FIRST then move onto the Bonus in the SAME session right, so you HAVE to do BOTH at the same time. Because if its any other way then it's just the same as it is now. I have completed all of the regular missions up to the desert and now I go back and pick up the bonuses. I either use henchies to do this or Guildmates, IF I join up with another group I'll help with what ever they need in exchange for helping me get what I need.

Draconias · Jun 24, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

Name one mission where you can't do the main misison and bonus in one run?

Iron Mines of Moladune, Ice Caves of Sorrow

To do the Bonus on the Iron Mines, you must defeat 20+ Mursaat. However, to get Infused, you must first miss the bonus-- and you can't go back. The only way you can possibly beat the Bonus is to do a majority of the Mission first (infusion runs), then fight your way through hordes of Mursaat to the Bonus. The minimum number of runs you must do for this level is 2, even though you can do the Mission after the Bonus.

To do the Bonus on the Ice Caves, you must defeat 3 Jades and 3 Mursaat Elementalists, minimum. You can't get infused until the next Mission. It is physically impossible to beat the Bonus on the Ice Caves with 6 uninfused people with Mursaat smacking your people for 100 dmg a second, 24 hp degen, and 160 dmg from Chain Lightnings, all while Jades tank you and do Spectral Agony as well. The only way to beat this is to complete the mission, do the next mission, then come back and do this mission again-- so the minimum number of runs required is 2, even though you can do the mission as well on the 2nd run.

Night · Jun 24, 2005, 04:13 PM // 16:13

I agree the bonus should not be awarded until after the mission run is completed with.

It encourages folks to do them both instead of speeding through a mission just to get ahead then come back later which I will admit I do (although I won't or haven't left a group high and dry if I was only seeking the bonus). it will also keep folks from grabbing the bonus and jetting on their way, leaving the group in a hole.

I also realize I am going catch a whole lot of grief with this but I think the same thing should apply to capture signets on a mission but with a slight change, if the group dies, the person capping the skill, will get to keep the skill. but if they leave before the mission is completed or the whole group dies, they lose the skill capped. I can't count how many times lately, I have been in a group where someone merely joined to get the skill (didn't say that was their only reason either) and ditching the group as soon as they capped it.

Syno · Jun 24, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconias

Iron Mines of Moladune, Ice Caves of Sorrow

The only way to beat this is to complete the mission, do the next mission, then come back and do this mission again-- so the minimum number of runs required is 2, even though you can do the mission as well on the 2nd run.

But it can all be completed in one run on the second try. So this idea would still work. It's not a bad idea. So many people DO find a good group, only to have that good group disband after the bonus is completed. It's not whining, it's a valid gripe.

A free web-based wargame you can play from anywhere!

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syno

But it can all be completed in one run on the second try. So this idea would still work. It's not a bad idea. So many people DO find a good group, only to have that good group disband after the bonus is completed. It's not whining, it's a valid gripe.

A free web-based wargame you can play from anywhere!

What you do not seem to be able to understand is that for many people, doing the whole mission again is not fun. They want to just go back and do the bonus. This does not need to be changed. Just advertise what you are wanting to do before starting the mission.

If you do make this change, then you must make it in BOTH directions: ie you do not get credit for completing the mission until you also complete the bonus. Otherwise you will get a bunch of people that need to do the bonus and other people that just want to complete the mission. So if the change is made as you want, then once the mission starts, the n00bs will pass up the bonus because they are just intersted in the mission to further the story. The people that came for the bonus will be screwed.

So really to make it work the way you intend, both bonus and mission must be done. At which point, why call it a bonus? Just make it one more required task in the mission and be done with it. See where this is leading?

The system as it currently exists works just fine.

I don't seem to have any of these problems with ppl dropping that you are having. The PUG's I get into sort out the different motivations for joining the group and reach a consensus before we start the mission.

Creston · Jun 24, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Now more and more players have done most missions it becomes harder and harder to find a decent party to do those missions. Many players only want to do the bonus quest in the missions. This leads to situations where its very hard to find a party for the real mission and even than, when the mission starts there are players who go straightly to the bonus quest and leave when it appears that others want to beat the real mission only. Or leave after completing the bonus level.

My suggestion: Dont give the reward for the bonus quest until the real mission has been completed!

This seems fine for you now, right up until the point where YOU have completed all the missions and just need bonusses, and then you'll be back bitching about how you have to complete the missions just to get your bonus quest.

They are designed to be done either together OR independently. Make sure to make clear beforehand that you're forming a party for the MISSION, and not for the bonus. If some dweeb then still goes off for the bonus, have him do it himself.

All this simply goes back to the game needing a far better quest / group creation method rather than everyone yapping LFG MISSION!!!!!1!1

Creston

Creston · Jun 24, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

^^ are you some kind of idiot? If you join a group that does both mission and bonus, you only go through once, not twice. Grind? What grind?

Name one mission where you can't do the main misison and bonus in one run?

Sanctum Cay. Please make a video of you playing this mission, doing the bonus first (taking the ghost to his grave) and then how you tackle the 878 white mantle standing at the dock, with the vizier, where you need to go. If you last for 15 seconds against them, I'll even give you 5 plat. There are probably at least five threads here with screenshots of dead parties after being raped by all the white mantle.

It is nigh IMPOSSIBLE to do the bonus on this mission and still have a chance at completing the mission itself. So in this scenario, doing the bonus would become impossible.

In short, don't call anyone an idiot when you obviously don't have a frigging clue what you're talking about.

Creston

Eclair · Jun 24, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

What they should do is that if there's any member of the party who has NOT done the main mission, then you'd have to finish the main mission first before the mission bonus is rewarded.

So people who only go back to do the bonus will not be affected. However, if somebody wants to take advantage of a new group, they wouldn't be able to.

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

What they should do is that if there's any member of the party who has NOT done the main mission, then you'd have to finish the main mission first before the mission bonus is rewarded.

So people who only go back to do the bonus will not be affected. However, if somebody wants to take advantage of a new group, they wouldn't be able to.

How does that fix it? People only wanting the bonus will get sucked into the group not knowing they have a hidden person in the group that needs the mission only. Once they find out in the middle of the mission they will drop.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 24, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

It is a very good suggestion and 1 I hope they implement.

The basis is that you have to finish the mission if you want the bonus, you cannot get bonus then ditch group which does happen.
It means that you have to complete both primary and secondary objectives and on completion of the primary, if you have done secondary you will be awarded bonus xp / reward.
Obviously if you are not bothered about the secondary / bonus you can still just do the main / primary.

It will not add any more grind than what players do anyway. You can get picky about this and post xxx, and yyy and this is *****, but how many times have you run missions? How many times did you do the old fussion runs, etc etc in the grand scheme of things it is not something major. It just means you will have to put in that extra 1/2 a mile.
If a mission and bonus are tooo hard to complete in one go, I am sure there will be lots of post about it by lots of different players and A.net will then amend / rebalance the mission in question as simple as that.

Pandora's box · Jun 24, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalt2

I just want to make sure I'm getting what you're saying, in order to get the "bonus" you MUST do the mission FIRST then move onto the Bonus in the SAME session right, so you HAVE to do BOTH at the same time. Because if its any other way then it's just the same as it is now. I have completed all of the regular missions up to the desert and now I go back and pick up the bonuses. I either use henchies to do this or Guildmates, IF I join up with another group I'll help with what ever they need in exchange for helping me get what I need.

What I'm suggesting is:
Do the mission AND the bonus quest at the same time, just like its done now by many players. Only you dont get the reward for the bonus quest at once, but you will be able to claim it after completing the whole mission.

I realize that some bonus quests are too hard to be done before having done the mission. But that's the meaning of these quests: The greedy ones who want it all at once will have a very hard mission. The way its been done now, doing the mission first, and later come back much stronger for the bonus, is in fact a way to cheat the bonus levels. Given that and the fact how hard it often is to get a party for the real mission, I think its a fair price to pay that when you go back later for the bonus you will have to do the whole mission again.